The Rocky Statue

ROMAN MARS: This is 99% Invisible. I’m Roman Mars. 

[ROCKY THEME]

ROMAN MARS: And this, of course, is the theme for one of the most epic training sequences of all time. It’s from the 1976 movie Rocky, and it plays as the struggling boxer in Philadelphia, Rocky Balboa, builds his strength for the big fight by doing one-arm pushups and using a giant slab of raw meat as a punching bag. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: The training montage ends with him bounding up the 72 steps of the Philadelphia Museum of Art. The camera’s panning around him, and he raises his fists up victoriously. 

ROMAN MARS: This is producer Justin Kramon. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Until I rewatched the movie recently, I’d pretty much forgotten everything else about it. Like, this moment is my image of the film: Rocky jumping up and down, in front of the museum, arms raised, all of Philly below him. 

LAURA HOLZMAN: Rocky’s run up the steps becomes this iconic moment. And pretty much immediately people who run up the steps as part of their exercise routine in Philadelphia become associated with Rocky. And it becomes recognized as this fan practice where people are responding to the film and they’re running up the steps. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Laura Holzman teaches art history and museum studies at Indiana University. She’s written about Rocky’s legacy in Philadelphia cultural history. 

LAURA HOLZMAN: And in Rocky II, the movie acknowledges the prominence of this fan practice because he repeats the run up the steps. And this time, he’s joined by a group of kids as he runs up the stairs. 

ROMAN MARS: Today at the top of those iconic steps in front of the art museum stands an 8.5-foot-tall statue of Rocky Balboa, a gift to the city of Philadelphia from the film’s star, Sylvester Stallone. It’s a bronze sculpture, and it depicts Rocky dressed like a boxer in that same victorious stance. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Standing on a one and a half foot base, this chiseled gladiator towers over the Benjamin Franklin Parkway, a stretch of Philly that’s home to some of the city’s most famous museums and cultural sites. That location really highlights just how important the statue is in the city. Around four million people visit the Rocky statue every year, about the same as the Statue of Liberty. 

ROMAN MARS: When Stallone first gave the statue to Philly, this is exactly where he wanted it to live, at the top of the museum steps, fists high, looking over the city, just like the movie. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: But it would be decades before this became the Rocky Statue’s permanent home because what started as a simple gesture of gratitude, and possibly a bit of self-aggrandizement, soon became much more. The statue set off a 50-year battle about class, public space, and what it means for a single piece of art to represent an entire city. 

In the way that great boxers aren’t born as indomitable fortresses of muscle, the Rocky statue began its life not as an important public sculpture but a common movie prop. Stallone had the statue built in 1980. Originally, it was for a scene in Rocky III in which a fictional mayor, standing next to the statue at the top of the museum steps, dedicates it to the city of Philadelphia. 

MAYOR: It is with tremendous honor that we present this memorial, which will stand always as a celebration to the indomitable spirit of man. Philadelphia salutes its favorite son, Rocky Balboa…

ROMAN MARS: But instead of getting the art department to make this prop out of painted plastic and foam, Stallone paid $53,000 to an artist named A. Thomas Schomberg to cast the statue in bronze. 

LAURA HOLZMAN: It is really significant that he chose to have this be made of fine art materials and not just stuff that would be thrown into the trash bin at the end of the film shoot. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Stallone once called Rocky a, quote, “euphemism for the city of Philadelphia.” Some have speculated that he had always wanted the statue to be a permanent piece of public art there.

ROMAN MARS: Stallone went to high school in Philly. And because of his and the statue’s connection to the city, he made an offer. He said that, after the Rocky III film shoot, he wanted to donate the 1,800-pound statue to Philadelphia to stand permanently at the top of the museum steps. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: But almost as soon as Stallone announced his plans, there were haters, critics who didn’t want the statue anywhere near the Philadelphia Museum of Art. Some refused to indulge what they saw as just an ego trip for Stallone. Others said it was simply an ad for his films. 

ROMAN MARS: But the strongest opposition came from the leadership at the museum. Their beef with the statue emerged from a much larger concern. At the time, Philly’s influential art patrons and tastemakers were trying to figure out how to return Philly to its former glory as a hub of national culture. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Philly was hot back in the day–I mean, like, way back in the day, like 1776 back, when Philadelphia was at the center of the nation’s founding. But by the early 20th century, that shine had seriously faded. Philly looked more like your typical East Coast American city. 

LAURA HOLZMAN: And by the time of the bicentennial, so 1976, Philadelphia had a reputation as a city that just couldn’t get a break. There was a crumbling urban infrastructure. There was a lot of corruption in local politics. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: In the nostalgia stirred up by that bicentennial, the 1980s art crowd were dreaming of ways to remake Philly as a grand cultural metropolis. They aspired for the city to again become, as a famous architect once called it, the Athens of the Western world, a city that would boast one of the nation’s premier art scenes. This art crowd had invested a lot in the city’s preeminent museum. They didn’t think this nine-foot-tall boxer with shredded abs was going to push Philly toward that dream. They were inclined to tell Stallone, “Thanks for the gift, but we will decide where it goes. By the way, it won’t be anywhere near the museum.”

ROMAN MARS: But that wasn’t actually up to the museum. Instead, that decision fell to a couple of city commissions, which voted on the selection and placement of public art around the museum. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: One of those agencies was an eight-member group simply called the Art Commission. And before they even met to place their votes on where the statue could live, things weren’t looking good for Rocky. The president of the commission was a wealthy art patron named F. Eugene Dixon Jr. His friends called him Fitz. He’d invested a lot of money in Philly’s art sector. And when he got word of Stallone’s gift, he said it would be fine for the statue to stand temporarily on the steps while Stallone promoted Rocky III. But in a letter to a colleague, he added… 

MARK BOWDEN: “If, however, this statue is to be placed somewhere in the courtyard on a permanent basis, I hope you are jesting.”

JUSTIN KRAMON: That’s not Fitz. That’s writer Mark Bowden. 

MARK BOWDEN: He signed the letter “with best regards, as always, sincerely yours, Fitz.” I just picture him in his mahogany-lined library out on the farm in Montgomery County. “Who are they kidding?”

ROMAN MARS: Mark is the author of numerous acclaimed and best-selling books, including Black Hawk Down and Killing Pablo. At the time, he was a staff writer for the Philadelphia Enquirer’s Sunday Magazine, and he covered the Rocky Statue gift. 

MARK BOWDEN: I was intrigued by the sort of collision between what’s popular and what’s regarded as serious art. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: As Mark worked on the story, he discovered the museum crowd bristled even at the use of the term “art” when discussing the Rocky statue. Their position? 

MARK BOWDEN: “We’re not even talking about really a work of art, we’re talking about a movie prop.”

JUSTIN KRAMON: This raised a question for me. As art goes, could one deign to call the Rocky Statue an aesthetically good sculpture? Like, was it beautifully crafted? How did it stack up, pound for pound, against other famous sculptures? I brought my questions to Laura Holzman. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Is it a good statue? 

LAURA HOLZMAN: Ugh, that’s such a hard question to answer. What makes anything a good statue? 

JUSTIN KRAMON: She did her best to avoid it… 

LAURA HOLZMAN: I can say that it means something very important to a lot of people. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Went to great lengths to preface her answer… 

LAURA HOLZMAN: I mean no offense to the people who worked really, really hard to produce it, maintain it, install it…

JUSTIN KRAMON: Then ultimately gave in. 

LAURA HOLZMAN: Yeah, okay, I will say, on aesthetic terms, the Rocky Statue doesn’t quite do it for me. He’s kind of awkward looking. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Other art historians and critics I spoke to weren’t so diplomatic. One called it, quote, “a pretty limp piece of sculpture, not a powerful work of art, and a very superficial look at the human body.” Another praised Rocky’s armpit hair to the exclusion of every other detail in the statue. 

ROMAN MARS: So it’s not surprising that, in the winter of 1980, the Art Commission voted six to two to reject the permanent placement of the statue on the museum’s steps. Stallone could put it there to film his movie, but after Rocky III wrapped, the commission would choose a different place to park his “gift” to the city. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: And if you’re wondering, the remaining two votes were to bar the statue from the steps entirely. So the statue stood for a few days at the top of the museum steps while they filmed Rocky III. Then it was packed up and shipped all the way to LA, where some might say a movie prop belongs. 

ROMAN MARS: But the fight was far from over because, while some wealthy influential art patrons–some might call “snobs”–did not appreciate the statue, a lot of other Philadelphians did. To them, the idea of a local guy who fought his way to the top through pure grit and determination–no trust fund needed–this was the real Philadelphia… Working class Philadelphia. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: So, at the same time Stallone’s team was pressing the city to put the statue back in Philly, a similar push came from a local truck driver named Art Gorman. He was one of the statue’s biggest champions. Here’s Mark Bowden again. 

MARK BOWDEN: Art was just a huge enthusiast of the movie Rocky, and hence Sylvester Stallone. He is a sort of salt of the earth, Philly guy from a blue collar neighborhood, who feels like, “Who are these snooty guardians of good taste to be telling us what we should be able to see on the steps of the Philadelphia Art Museum? We want it there.”

ROMAN MARS: In late 1980, Gorman drafted a petition in support of bringing the statue from LA back to Philly permanently. 

MARK BOWDEN: I do think we should note it was written entirely in capital letters. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Mark read me some of the petition. 

MARK BOWDEN: “Rocky Statue should be back in Philly. Remember Rocky 1, when you and the kids went to the movie? What did they and yourself feel? Seeing Philly on the screen instead of New York or San Francisco. Pretty good, ha! Why don’t you voice your opinion if you feel that the statue should be back in Philly?”

JUSTIN KRAMON: Gorman hit the streets collecting thousands of signatures from regular Philadelphians. This impassioned 33-year-old, door knocking around Philly, fighting to bring back the Rocky statue, drummed up a bunch of media coverage. 

NEWSCASTER #1: Petitions are being collected around Philadelphia asking for the return of Rocky… 

LAURA HOLZMAN: It seems like the story gets told in a way that pits blue collar Philadelphia against elitist high culture Philadelphia–this narrative of, you know, slobs versus snobs. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Still, it was the snobs who got to vote on the matter. And the petition didn’t change their basic stance. Rocky III was about to come out in theaters, so the Art Commission said, “Fine, the statue could come back to the museum steps, but only for the premiere.” As soon as that was over, Stallone’s gift would have to be taken off the stairs. 

ROMAN MARS: Rocky III opened in May 1982. Philly’s celebration featuring the Rocky statue came and went. 

LAURA HOLZMAN: But the production company kind of just left it there. And the city won’t pay to have it removed. So the museum has to take care of it. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: It was several months before movers finally came to haul the statue away. But when they got to the museum, they had one more obstacle to deal with. The statue was bolted to the pavement with steel rods that went several feet into the ground. It was as if the movie producers meant for it to stay there forever. 

ROMAN MARS: But the statue was finally pried loose and hauled five miles away to its new home in South Philly, at the Spectrum Sports Arena, where other statues of athletes stood. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: And to most, it seemed like the fight was over. But, you know, it’s Rocky. The fight over the statue kept going partly because the movie franchise just kept going. Yep–big reveal–the Rocky series did not end up being a trilogy. There was another…

NEWSCASTER #2: Rocky IV is one of the big hits of the holiday season…

JUSTIN KRAMON: And another… 

NEWSCASTER #3: The Rocky production crew spent two months in Philadelphia filming Rocky V… 

ROMAN MARS: As he cranked out sequels, Stallone asked the Art Commission repeatedly to move the statue from the Spectrum to the museum for good. And each time, the commission said no. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: And that’s how it went for 25 years. Rocky punched, the museum counterpunched. 

ROMAN MARS: Then in 2006, Rocky got his best opportunity yet. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: John Street, Philly’s mayor at the time, had launched several projects to revitalize public spaces all over the city. So the topic of what public art would be displayed in those spaces had some traction. 

ROMAN MARS: Meanwhile, Stallone was preparing to release Rocky Balboa, the first Rocky movie in 16 years. Philly usually hosted big Rocky premiere parties, which helped promote the movies and the city. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: At that point, the Rocky Statue was in storage while the city built a new sports complex. This seemed like the perfect moment for it to re-emerge as a piece of public art and to use it to celebrate the new film. 

ROMAN MARS: That’s when a lawyer named Jimmy Binns decided to make a very important phone call. Jimmy was a friend of Sylvester Stallone. He appeared in one of the Rocky sequels and had a reputation as a Philly power broker. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: I got Jimmy on the phone. And he told me how he asked Stallone if he wanted some help getting the statue to the museum. Stallone said, “Yeah.” So Jimmy called up the mayor and told him that he, Jimmy, would like the statue back at the museum. 

JIMMY BINNS: Here’s what he said. He said, “You know, those people go crazy,” those people, meaning the trustees of the museum. And I said to him, “Well, let me ask you a question.” I said, “Do those people invite you over to their house on Sunday afternoon for cocktails?” And he laughed and he said, “No.” And I say, “Well, [BLEEP] ’em.” And he said, “Okay. [BLEEP] ’em.”

JUSTIN KRAMON: With the mayor’s support, the idea of placing the statue at the museum finally started gaining real momentum. Even the Philadelphia Museum of Art began to bend. The mayor’s office was able to persuade the museum to consider Stallone’s vision.

ROMAN MARS: The museum and the mayor’s office began to hash out a potential compromise. The statue would move out of storage and back to the museum permanently, however, not at the top of the steps, but at the bottom and a little to the side. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: At long last, after nearly a quarter century of petitioning, it seemed like Stallone was about to make his dream come true. 

ROMAN MARS: The only hurdle left was the Art Commission because they were the ones who still had the final vote on where the statue would go. When this fight started, they were statue haters. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: But this time, it seemed like they might play ball. 

LAURA HOLZMAN: So in May of 2006, the Philadelphia Art Commission announces that the statue might be relocated to the museum. And a whole additional wave of public debate comes out of that. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: That debate involved not just commission members, but all sorts of gatekeepers who were weighing in on the statue’s artistic merit and where to put it. 

ROMAN MARS: One city official, named Harris Baum, went on a local NPR call-in show to express his desire to keep the statue far away from the museum. He said it clashed with the commission’s grand vision for the Benjamin Franklin Parkway, where the museum sits. 

HARRIS BAUM: We’re trying to develop the Parkway to become a Champs-Élysées, similar to what they have in Paris. And we want to develop more art around the art museum as such. But that is not a piece of art. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: But the response Baum got wasn’t the same as it might’ve been back in the 1980s. Now, listeners didn’t want to get pulled into a debate about art. Baum was fighting an old fight. For the listeners who called in, it was about how Rocky represented them. 

MARTY MOSS-COANE: Hi, Judy. Go ahead, you’re on Radio Times. 

JUDY: You can put me at the top of the steps camp. That statue is an icon. It’s an image of the blue-collar spirit of our town. It illustrates what we are all about in Philadelphia. 

MARTY MOSS-COANE: Let me get Jack from Lansdale to join us. Hi Jack, go ahead. You are on the air. 

JACK: Uh, I just want to say ideally I’d like to see it at the top steps, but a bunch of pompous powdered wigs aren’t going to let that happen.

MARTY MOSS-COANE: Well, just one quick question. I mean, are you calling Harris Baum pompous? 

JACK: Absolutely. The snobbery that he was exuding earlier–it’s absolutely insulting. Pardon me, sir, but maybe Philadelphia likes it where it is. Why do you get to decide what Philadelphia looks like?

ROMAN MARS: You can hear it, Philadelphians had developed a loyalty to the statue. It’s like they were defending a guy from their own neighborhood. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: In September 6, 2006, the Art Commission voted, again, on whether or not the Rocky Statue could finally live beside the museum steps. And the minutes from that meeting reflect a clear shift in their thinking. Quote, “Most members felt that the statue’s iconic symbolism has won it a place in the city’s identity.”

ROMAN MARS: By a vote of six to two, the Art Commission finally approved plans to install the Rocky Statue at the museum. The snobs had given in. Less than a week later, the city unveiled the statue in its new home, at the base of the museum steps, and a little to the side. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: So, this is a clip from KYW-TV in Philly. And you hear the audience roar when the music swells and the curtain drops and an eight-and-a-half-foot bronze Rocky is unveiled. Stallone walks up to the statue and kind of marvels at it in this boyish way, like, “How did this finally happen?” He lifts his hand and pats the statue admiringly on its rock-hard abs. I have to say, I found the whole thing oddly touching. 

SYLVESTER STALLONE: I can’t believe you’ve allowed me to come into your lives in such a way and have this incredible… This is actually mind-bending to me that this could happen. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: I asked Laura Holzman if she thinks this was the museum and the Art Commission finally embracing the Rocky Statue after 26 years of resistance. 

LAURA HOLZMAN: I think it’s an acceptance. By 2006, it doesn’t just work as an advertisement for the Rocky movies. It works as an advertisement for Philadelphia and Philadelphia’s grit and resilience and Philadelphia’s fame, not just from fine art, but also from pop culture. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: This acceptance marked a new era in the statue’s life. 

PAUL FARBER: What you start to see is an understanding that this is becoming a fixture in the city’s landscape. It’s emerging as a monument, and it’s being treated as that.

ROMAN MARS: Paul Farber directs Monument Lab, a nonprofit that studies and advises on monuments around the country. 

PAUL FARBER: When it comes back to the art museum–to the base of the steps in 2006–I think it is seen more and more as an accepted monument in the city. The bureaucracy of the city is treating it as something that’s going to stay. 

ROMAN MARS: Once Rocky was installed, the city leaned fully into its status as a Philadelphia monument. Lights were added to illuminate the statue for night visitors. It was hoisted up onto a brand new foot-and-a-half-tall granite pedestal. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: This kind of publicly ratified monument is different from a statue that starts out as a monument. The art historian Alois Riegl once talked about the distinction between what he called “deliberate monuments” and “unintentional” ones. 

ROMAN MARS: The deliberate monuments are the dudes on horses, sculptures made explicitly to commemorate a person or an event. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: An unintentional monument is an object that becomes important to us, not for the reasons it was originally made. It becomes meaningful because of how we, the viewers, come to see it, like an ordinary house that later becomes a landmark or a museum. The Rocky Statue had undergone this transformation. It had transcended the squabbles about art that initially surrounded it and arrived as a full-on monument. 

ROMAN MARS: Up on its pedestal, looking over Philadelphia, it seemed like Rocky had at last found its permanent home. But then, about a decade into the statue’s residence there, a tragedy more than 500 miles south of Philly would spark a reckoning about race and monuments around the country. And once again, Rocky was in the middle of a whole new controversy. More of that after the break. 

[AD BREAK]

ROMAN MARS: By 2015, the Rocky Statue had been standing beside the Philadelphia Museum of Art for nearly 10 years. It drew locals and tourists who posed and took pictures next to the bronze champ. It seemed like the statue could finally settle into its status as a true Philadelphia monument. But then, Rocky got swept up into a different fight. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: It started in June 2015, when white supremacist Dylann Roof entered a Black church in Charleston, South Carolina, and opened fire. Nine people were killed that day. Roof’s plan was to start a race war. 

ROMAN MARS: The mass shooting highlighted issues of white supremacist violence and domestic terrorism in the U.S. It also stirred up an ongoing conversation around racist symbols, especially monuments. Here’s Paul Farber again, from the Monument Lab. 

PAUL FARBER: At that moment, there is a groundswell around rethinking the monuments that we have inherited and the symbols. We have a monument landscape that has elevated Confederates over civil rights. 

ROMAN MARS: Around the country, people began questioning flags and statues representing America’s racist history. Eventually, that reckoning came to Philly. 

The spotlight fell on a few monuments in particular, including several Christopher Columbus statues, also a statue of former mayor Frank Rizzo, known for violent policing in Black communities and racially inflammatory rhetoric.

JUSTIN KRAMON: And when Paul’s organization, Monument Lab, asked Philadelphians about what kinds of monuments they would build to reflect their city’s visions and values, he heard questions about whether Rocky was a good monument for Philly. 

PAUL FARBER: At that point, like, Rocky isn’t in the spotlight in the heat of a reckoning about monuments, but the murmurs are there. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Some of those murmurs went like this: Rocky’s cool, but Philly is a city with a real history of boxing. And unlike the fictional Italian Stallion, most of those real boxers were Black, including Joe Frazier, the one-time heavyweight champion and first to defeat Muhammad Ali in a fight that over 300 million people watched. 

PAUL FARBER: Frazier becomes a kind of beloved hometown hero in Philadelphia. You know, you don’t have Rocky Balboa without Joe Frazier. 

ROMAN MARS: Paul’s referring to the fact that the most famous parts of the training montage in the first Rocky movie–running up the museum steps and punching raw meat–those were actually taken from Frazier’s real workout routines. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Frazier did get a statue in 2015. But for a lot of Philadelphians, the 12-foot bronze likeness fell short of a fair tribute to a real-life boxing legend, especially compared to the love Rocky had received. 

PAUL FARBER: We heard that Joe Frazier wasn’t getting his due–that there was an opportunity to do right by his legacy. His image is not emblazoned on tour buses. And the steps that he ran up are called the Rocky Steps.

ROMAN MARS: That imbalance and the question it raised around race were soon brought into even sharper focus. In the summer of 2020, after the murder of George Floyd, the ongoing fight over America’s monuments heated up once again. Ordinary citizens toppled statutes depicting historical figures associated with racist ideas. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Five days after Floyd was killed, someone set fire to the Rizzo statue. In Marconi Plaza, groups of mostly white residents, armed with clubs and guns, surrounded a Columbus statue to guard it from being torn down. 

ROMAN MARS: As for Rocky, now that his statue was considered a monument, it would have to face the same scrutiny as these other statues. Here was a tribute to a fictional white movie character who many felt had stolen the spotlight from a real hometown Black boxing champion. Surely that meant Rocky’s days were numbered. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: But that’s not how things played out. Philly’s largest Black Lives Matter demonstrations kicked off every day at the art museum steps. Thousands of protesters gathered right next to the Rocky statue.

ROMAN MARS: And instead of being torn down or moved somewhere else, Rocky was incorporated into the rallies. 

PAUL FARBER: So, like, where’s Rocky in all of this? Someone has put a sign on Rocky that reads, “No justice no peace.” 

ROMAN MARS: Not only did Rocky get a role in the Black Lives Matter protests, but people started using him for other causes, putting all sorts of stuff on his bronze body. 

PAUL FARBER: You have a face mask in the early days of the lockdown. You have a Ukrainian flag. When the Eagles famed defensive end Brandon Graham retires, he puts his cleats on Rocky. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Rocky became this container for the city’s complicated and sometimes contradictory emotions. Paul saw this on a day early in the pandemic when he looked at the line of people waiting to take pictures with the statue. 

PAUL FARBER: So there’s a Black family. And as they’re posing for a photo, everyone holds up the Black power fist of solidarity. And three or four people later, like, a group of white guys–I think they were in their early 20s–hold up a white power sign.

JUSTIN KRAMON: So these two things are happening almost together, but not confrontationally? 

PAUL FARBER: Yeah, that’s right. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: The Rocky Statue could hold all of this. Whether you liked it or hated it, thought it was beautiful or ugly, agreed with the person next to you in line or found their views abhorrent, the statue had become linked to the whole city. It was like a song everyone in Philly knew. And people could remix it in lots of ways so that it meant something just for them. 

ROMAN MARS: In 2020, the Frank Rizzo statue got moved into storage. The Columbus statue had a plywood box placed over it while the city decided what to do with it. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: But Rocky? His statue has only gotten more popular. Paul Farber guest-curated a show about boxing at the Philadelphia Museum of Art. And what did the exhibition feature? None other than the statue that had been repeatedly kicked off its steps.

ROMAN MARS: Paul had moved it from the bottom of the steps to inside the museum for the show. Once that was over, Rocky moved again, back outside. And this time, it was right where Stallone had always wanted it, at the top of the museum steps, permanently, at least for now. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Read the Philly Inquirer any week, and you’ll see there’s still deep disagreement about whether this is the right place for it. Some people think the statue has found its rightful home. Others hate that it clogs up the museum plaza with vendors selling Rocky-related tchotchkes. And others are just tired of talking about it.

ROMAN MARS: In an additional move that some see as a tribute and others as a consolation prize, Joe Frazier’s statue has been moved to Rocky’s old spot, at the bottom of the museum steps, and a little to the side. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: When this started, there was a sense that it was Rocky fighting to get to the top of the museum steps. And there were people against that. So, like, did Rocky win? 

PAUL FARBER: I don’t think that there is a simple winner. Let the never-ending Rocky series show us that what we’re seeing right now is just another chapter in a story that will keep unfolding. Monuments are not conclusions. They’re not periods at the end of a sentence. Nothing is forever. No monument is permanent. 

JUSTIN KRAMON: Every champion throws a last punch. Even Rocky had to hang up his gloves eventually. It’s true, nothing in this world lasts forever, except maybe the sequels. 

ROMAN MARS: 99% Invisible was reported this week by Justin Kramon. Produced and edited by Christopher Johnson. Mix by Martín Gonzalez. Music by Swan Real and Paul Vaitkus. Fact-checking by Graham Hacia. Special thanks this week to Michael Vitez, David Brownlee, and Peter C. Sutton. Kathy Tu is our executive producer. Kurt Kohlstedt is our digital director. Delaney Hall is our senior editor. The rest of the team includes Chris Berube, Jayson De Leon, Emmett FitzGerald, Vivian Le, Lasha Madan, Joe Rosenberg, Kelly Prime, Jeyca Medina-Gleason, Talon and Rain Stradley, and me, Roman Mars. The 99% Invisible logo was created by Stefan Lawrence. We are part of the SiriusXM podcast family, now headquartered six blocks north in the Pandora building… in beautiful… uptown… Oakland, California. You can find us on all the usual social media sites, as well as our Discord server. There’s a link to that, as well as every past episode of 99PI, at 99pi.org.