ROMAN MARS: This is 99% Invisible. I’m Roman Mars. And I’m here with producer Chris Berube. Hey, Chris.
CHRIS BERUBE: Hey, Roman, how’s it going?
ROMAN MARS: I’m doing good. So, earlier this week, we heard your story about the Memphis Pyramid, which is maybe the strangest building in America. And it just got stranger and stranger the more we talked about it. But now you have this bonus episode for us.
CHRIS BERUBE: Yes, I have to justify the cost of staying in the Pyramid Hotel for three days, so I’ve created some extra material here. But before we start–okay–for folks listening, if you haven’t heard the Memphis Pyramid episode, do that first. This episode will only make sense if you’ve heard both. I mean, there’s a couple of references that are pretty specific. So, I’d say go back and listen to that. But before I get into it, Roman, you actually know Memphis really well, right? Like, what is your connection to Memphis?
ROMAN MARS: Yeah, my mom’s family is from Memphis. And so I was sort of on and off growing up there. We lived in a different state most of the time, but I was there for summers and holidays. And then in my 20s, I lived there for a stretch, delivering pizzas in Midtown. And so I know Memphis very well.
CHRIS BERUBE: So, listeners in Memphis, if you got a pizza delivered by Roman Mars and you want your money back, now you know where to reach us.
ROMAN MARS: [LAUGHING] You’ll be in your mid-nineties.
CHRIS BERUBE: So, Roman, for my time in Memphis… You know, I spent a lot of time in the Pyramid, as we discussed. There was a whole day there where I didn’t see sunlight. But I also spent a lot of time with a guy named Jimmy Ogle. Now, do you remember Jimmy from the Pyramid episode?
ROMAN MARS: Oh, yes. He has a perfect Tennessee accent.
CHRIS BERUBE: Yes. He’s our historian, right? Like, we talked to him. He used to be the historian for Shelby County–an instant fan favorite, in my opinion. And when I was working on this story, a lot of people said to me, “You have to talk to Jimmy. He knows everything about the history of Memphis,” because, of course, he was a historian. But also he has, like, maybe the most eventful resumé I have ever seen. Here’s just what he said when I asked him to introduce himself for the episode.
JIMMY OGLE: Well, hi. I’m Jimmy Ogle, and I had the privilege of working in downtown Memphis for 40 years in various public attractions like Mud Island and the Mississippi River Museum; ran the Memphis Queen Line Riverboat Company, five-passenger vessels; Beale Street, the operations of Beale Street; the Memphis Rock and Soul, the Smithsonian Museum about the history of Memphis music; the Beale Street Landing Project, landing the big riverboats. I was a Shelby County historian. I gave walking tours up and down the sidewalks and PowerPoint presentations every day of the year, it seemed like. And my final job–I was a Duckmaster at the Peabody Hotel and a clock operator at the FedEx Forum for the basketball games. So, I had a lot of neat things I got to do and great experiences. I’m the luckiest Memphian ever to live.
ROMAN MARS: Oh my. goodness. That’s a lot!
CHRIS BERUBE: Right? Usually when we do those, it’s like, “Could you introduce yourself?” and it’s like, “I’m such and such, and I’m a professor.” Like, that’s it. But what a life. My gosh.
ROMAN MARS: You know, I probably understood more of those than the average person understood those little jobs that he took. But let’s talk about a few of them. So, he says he was the clock operator for the NBA team?
CHRIS BERUBE: That’s right. Yeah, he ran the score clock for the Memphis Grizzlies. So, he did that in the Pyramid. And then he also did that once they moved to the FedEx Forum.
ROMAN MARS: Yeah. And he ran Beale Street. I’m not sure what running Beale Street means.
CHRIS BERUBE: Yes! He was, like, the administrator of Beale Street. Like, he was in charge of stuff because there’s lots of stuff. If you don’t know Beale Street, it’s the big tourist street in Memphis. There’s lots of blues bars–things like that. But there’s also… You know, it has a bunch of historical markers. It has kind of their version of the walk of fame. Yeah, so he was in charge of all of that for a while.
ROMAN MARS: That’s awesome. But my favorite one that you might’ve missed if you do not know this history is that he was the Duckmaster at the Peabody. So, this I have seen in action many, many times. I went to a prom at the peabody. When I go to Memphis, I like to stay in the Peabody Hotel. It’s an older hotel that has a kind of charm and majesty to it. You can have afternoon tea there. But the thing about the Peabody Hotel is they have ducks that live on the roof. And every day, the ducks do this walk down to the fountain in the lobby. And then at the end of the day, they’re walked back up with a person in, you know, a fancy kind of coat and tails. And that’s just amazing that Jimmy did that. That is a one of a kind job.
CHRIS BERUBE: Yeah, I mean, it is considered a high honor to be the Duckmaster.
ROMAN MARS: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like Jimmy has had every cool and interesting job there is in Memphis.
CHRIS BERUBE: Oh my gosh. No, it’s amazing. And he is a true repository for, like, all information about the history of Memphis.
JIMMY OGLE: I got about 150 hours in my head I got to talk real fast and tell you about, so we’re going to touch on some of them. But there’s no city in the world that tells a story of American history better than Memphis, Tennessee.
CHRIS BERUBE: So, I reached out to Jimmy. We did the interview. We actually did the interviews in my hotel room inside the Pyramid. And afterwards he was like, “What are you doing with the rest of your Wednesday? Can I give you a tour?” He used to give these walking tours. And he offered to drive me around. And I got about ten hours of audio. Like, he kind of took me everywhere. So, Roman, today I’m here to present you with the highlights from my tour of Memphis by Jimmy Ogle. I picked out some of the 99PI-friendly greatest hits. Are you ready?
ROMAN MARS: I am so ready. This is amazing. Thank you so much for doing this. Okay, let’s do it.
CHRIS BERUBE: So, Roman, I wanna start with some kind of hardcore 99PI stuff. So, when Jimmy was County Historian, he used to give a ton of walking tours, as I said, including a tour of Memphis manhole covers.
ROMAN MARS: Oh my god! It’s like a dream come true for me. Okay, so, yeah, let’s hear it.
CHRIS BERUBE: So, at one point, we decided to stop and just, like, look at some manhole covers.
JIMMY OGLE: Seven different kinds of manhole covers in downtown Memphis out of 2000, by the way. Three different shapes: round, square, and rectangular. Seven different usages: light, gas, water, telephone, traffic signal, storm drain, and communications.
ROMAN MARS: I love this man.
CHRIS BERUBE: I thought you might. So, we’re walking around. And we stop at this one particular cover that Jimmy really wanted to show me.
JIMMY OGLE: So, here’s a very ornate old manhole cover–over a hundred years old.
CHRIS BERUBE: Something Jimmy pointed out to me is how, in Memphis, the manhole covers all look different, obviously. And even on the same block, you’ll see a bunch of manhole covers that have completely different branding.
JIMMY OGLE: Cumberland Telephone and Telegraph, okay? Here is Western Union Telephone Company. Of course, you can’t see it with the audio here. You come way over here about–what–ten paces away, you have Memphis Telephone Company. Why would you have three different telephone companies’ manhole covers within 20 feet of each other? Why?
ROMAN MARS: That’s a very good question. Why do they have that?
CHRIS BERUBE: So, it turns out these covers were for different local telecoms from about a century ago. And back then, if you signed up for a telecom company, you were only signing up for one service. And you could only call other people who had the same telecom. So, they all basically just had their own infrastructure. And that’s what these manhole covers represent.
JIMMY OGLE: The early years you had independent operators. So, if you got a telephone at the turn of the century in the 1920s, you had to pick one of three exchanges. And you could only talk to the person on your exchange. So, if your friends had Western Union but you had Cumberland, you couldn’t talk to them. Or you’d have to have two different phone sets–or three–to talk to all your friends.
CHRIS BERUBE: So, of course, after the ’20s, consolidation starts to happen. The system becomes more regulated. And if you’re in Memphis, you may still notice these manhole covers. They are the last vestige of the great Memphis telecom wars. So, obviously Memphis has a lot of history. Roman, you would know that coming from Memphis–that everywhere you go, you can’t really avoid it.
ROMAN MARS: Yeah, a lot of it around music, a lot around civil rights… It’s really a place that’s rich in history–both very good and very sad.
CHRIS BERUBE: Absolutely. The MLK assassination happened in Memphis, right? And you have a lot there commemorating that. But lots of joyful things as well, like Aretha Franklin’s birthplace is in Memphis, for example. And the city really plays up the historical element with the street names. So, there was a moment in the tour– So, Jimmy’s driving around. He pulls over. And he says, “Look, we gotta see this intersection.”
JIMMY OGLE: And look, if we go up in here real quick and you jump out of the car–we’re gonna let you take a picture at the intersection of King and King…
CHRIS BERUBE: Roman, do you know what this is–the intersection of King and King?
ROMAN MARS: Yes, I think I do know what this is. This is the intersection of Martin Luther King and B.B. King Boulevard, I believe.
CHRIS BERUBE: That is exactly correct. And this is right downtown. And the two of them intersect. It’s a place where you actually see a lot of people pulling over to take a photo with the two street signs because they have basically the same name. It’s King and King.
JIMMY OGLE: It’s the only King and King intersection in the country. You can go look that up, too.
CHRIS BERUBE: A couple of blocks away from this, there’s actually another street, which I am convinced actually is totally unique in the United States in terms of naming. So, it involves your beloved Tennessee Valley Authority.
JIMMY OGLE: So, on November the 6th, 1934, we voted to join TVA Power. They took this alley called Maiden Lane and made it November the 6th, 1934 Street.
ROMAN MARS: So, the street is literally named “November the 6th, 1934?”
CHRIS BERUBE: “Street.” “November the 6th, 1934 Street.” Now, this is somewhat complicated by the fact that all the street signs there now just say “November 6th Street.” Apparently, the city–to uncomplicate things–published all these signs that say November 6th Street. It’s a smaller sign. It’s easier to read on maps. But Jimmy insists it is still officially called November the 6th, 1934 Street. And he showed me all these photos of him with the old signs, which used to say the whole day, month, year on it. And if it is still November the 6th, 1934 Street, then that would make it a very unique street name in America.
ROMAN MARS: Wow! That is amazing. I mean, this is back when the Tennessee Valley Authority was really rockin’ and great. So, this is a good moment to commemorate.
CHRIS BERUBE: And, of course, our show needs to continue our recent streak of TVA content, if you’ve been listening. But Jimmy noted something that just totally hadn’t occurred to me. And this might be the only street that is like this in America.
JIMMY OGLE: I cannot find anybody in 15 years to tell me different. You might be the one. This might be your golden moment here. It is the only street in America named after a month, a day, and a year.
CHRIS BERUBE: I’m going to look into this because I want to know as well.
JIMMY OGLE: Well, there’s no July 4th, 1776 Street in Boston or Philadelphia. There’s no July 20th Street, 1969, when we landed on the moon! When Memphis voted to join TVA Power? There’s got to be some other dates in some other cities.
CHRIS BERUBE: Now, I looked into this as well, and I couldn’t find anything. I called a bunch of people–no success. So, 99PI listeners, if you know a street close to you that is named after a day, a month, and a year, help us out. It’d be valuable for me. It’d be valuable for Jimmy Ogle as well. He would love to know if Memphis has the only street of its kind in America.
ROMAN MARS: We would love to know.
We have more Memphis History after this.
[AD BREAK]
CHRIS BERUBE: So, okay, speaking of streets in Memphis, Roman, Jimmy and I were out. We were walking in Memphis. And we came to the most famous street in the city. What is that for people who do not know the city of Memphis?
ROMAN MARS: I’m gonna say that’s Beale Street.
CHRIS BERUBE: I would wager that is Beale Street, yes. So, you know, a very touristy stretch. They have the equivalent of the Walk of Fame with the notes. They have, like, music notes that commemorate people over there. And part of why we stopped there is actually because Jimmy just wanted to make sure the local historical markers were in good shape. So, we were walking around, and then he just started fixing them. And we ran into the guy who currently runs Beale Street, and he’s like, “Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Just fix some stuff.”
CHRIS BERUBE: Oh wait, you actually brought an Allen key?
JIMMY OGLE: Hey, in the meantime–after you tighten this up–what do you think, at some point, I go through and see a lot of them there just working their stuff loose…
CHRIS BERUBE: So, at some our trip just became free labor by Jimmy. Anyway, Beale Street–one of the most famous streets in America, I would argue. And did you know it was actually renamed in the 1960s?
ROMAN MARS: I did not know that, no. What happened?
CHRIS BERUBE: So, it had been called Beale Street. But in the ’50s, the city decided to change the naming conventions for all of the city streets. So, everything running east-west would become an avenue. And everything running north-south would become a street. So, it became Beale Avenue because Beale was running east-west. And it stayed that way for a while until a local celebrity got word about this. So, a famous radio star named Danny Thomas–he was very famous at the time–from Memphis… And Roman, can you imagine how Danny Thomas, this long time Memphian, might have felt about this change?
ROMAN MARS: I can imagine somebody just taking great umbrage to changing the name of Beale Street.
CHRIS BERUBE: Oh yeah, he was absolutely furious about this. So, he actually wrote a song called Bring Back My Beale Street. And he made 2,000 copies. And he sent it to members of the City Council. So, I’m going to play a bit of the song. The song is very spiteful. It’s like, “My Beale Street, what have you done?”
BRING BACK MY BEALE STREET: Sweet Beale Street, what have they done to you? I fell asleep…
CHRIS BERUBE: So, the song comes out. And you can just imagine all the pressure this is putting on local politicians. So, eventually, they cave in, and they agree to rename it Beale Street.
ROMAN MARS: Well, there you go. Political action works.
BRING BACK MY BEALE STREET: Bring back my Beale Street! Take back your avenue…
CHRIS BERUBE: So, Roman, after our trip to Beale Street, we went over to the University of Memphis, which you may remember has the basketball team, the famous–
ROMAN MARS: Yeah, sure. The Fighting Tigers.
CHRIS BERUBE: Just the Tigers, but yeah. They were fighting, I guess. They were fighting pretty hard in the ’90s with Penny Hardaway. So, there’s another very distinct feature of the University that Jimmy wanted to show me. They actually have one of the few university programs in America that studies Egyptology.
ROMAN MARS: Yeah, well that makes sense because this is the city that’s named for the capital of ancient Egypt.
CHRIS BERUBE: That’s right! And outside the department there, there is a 25-foot statue of the pharaoh Ramesses II. And actually it’s a perfect replica of a statue that existed in Egypt. Now, Roman, if you’re going to build a replica statue of this, what material would you use to make something this big and imposing?
ROMAN MARS: I would imagine it’s a concrete statue–a reinforced concrete statue.
CHRIS BERUBE: Yeah, that’s what I thought, too. It’s a great guess. And from a distance, that’s really what it looks like. But Jimmy took me up real close.
JIMMY OGLE: It looks like the real deal. I mean, that’s Ramesses standing there in a majestic mood. He wasn’t attacking anybody. He was just standing on guard over Egypt. You know, look at the hands. And look at that face. He’s just gladly standing there. This… You know, this…
[KNOCKING ON STATUE]
JIMMY OGLE: That’s hollow…
CHRIS BERUBE: So, Roman, it’s a very convincing dupe, but the statue is actually fiberglass.
ROMAN MARS: [CHUCKLES] Did you not know it until you knocked on it?
CHRIS BERUBE: No, I thought it might be concrete or stone or something. It was very convincing. And it’s funny because the statue actually wasn’t constructed for the University. That’s not where it lived for the longest time. It was actually in front of the Memphis Pyramid originally. And it was displayed in front of there when it was a basketball arena. And it stood there until 2012. And after that, Bass Pro moved in. And they decided, “Okay, we’re gonna move the statue.” City council had a vote, and they decided to send the statue to the University. So now the University of Memphis rents the statue. They have this 99-year lease with the city where they pay one dollar a year to rent the Ramesses statue, and they keep it in front of their department.
ROMAN MARS: That’s a pretty good deal. I would pay for that. [CHUCKLES] But just another pyramid connection with the rest of the city.
CHRIS BERUBE: I know, it’s just… Everywhere you go in this town, they have Egyptomania still.
So, Roman, our biggest visit of the day–this was to a part of town called Mud Island. Did you ever go to Mud Island?
ROMAN MARS: I have gone to Mud Island. I know exactly what that is, but it is hard to explain. So, why don’t you describe Mud Island? And you took the tram over, I take it?
CHRIS BERUBE: We’ve got to talk about the tram, actually. So, here’s the thing with Mud Island. Mud Island–it’s actually a misnomer. It’s actually a peninsula, technically, on the Mississippi River. And for a long time, Jimmy was the manager at Mud Island, so he was in charge of all the attractions that were there. It has this public park, right? It has his amphitheater. But Roman, unfortunately, a lot of the stuff there today is abandoned.
JIMMY OGLE: So, 5,000 people would come out this walkway here. Turnstiles. The permanent seating was 4,400. There was bleachers on this top level. I had the concession stands built outside the wall…
CHRIS BERUBE: So, they have this amphitheater. It hasn’t been used for concerts in a couple of years now. And the Island has this scale model of the Mississippi River. And Roman, do you remember this? You could sort of walk along it and follow the path of the Mississippi. It’s totally worth checking out. I saw it. It’s still there. And of course, Mud Island has the River Museum, which was this museum dedicated to the city of Memphis. And Roman, I knew about this before I came to Memphis–I think you can guess why–because it’s from a movie that you have probably seen as someone who is from Memphis.
ROMAN MARS: Oh, you mean The Firm.
CHRIS BERUBE: Yes, it’s The Firm.
ROMAN MARS: Yeah. Yeah. I know he’s chased around downtown Memphis. So, does it pass by here?
CHRIS BERUBE: They do. So, basically there’s this scene in The Firm where Tom Cruise– You know, he’s this big shot Memphis lawyer. He’s being chased around by goons. And they chase him to Mud Island on this monorail that’s running over to the Island.
ROMAN MARS: Right.
[MUSIC AND FIGHT SFX FROM THE FIRM]
CHRIS BERUBE: So, he’s being chased around this famous museum, the Memphis River Museum. But unfortunately the Memphis River Museum actually closed because of low attendance in 2018. And they also stopped running the monorail. So, now, the monorail is just sitting there. It’s next to this unused building that has more than 30,000 square feet of space.
ROMAN MARS: But do they have any plans to do anything with it?
CHRIS BERUBE: Well, it’s funny because–remember–we talked about the Pyramid as this case of adaptive reuse, right? It was an arena, and then it became a Bass Pro, right? And throughout Memphis, there are a lot of cool projects like this, I’m noticing–a lot of good adaptive reuse that’s been happening. So, there’s this old Sears warehouse, which has become this massive community center. There’s lots of old office buildings downtown that have been converted into housing. And with the River Museum, there are people recently who’ve moved in and are starting to clean it up.
MARVIN STOCKWELL: Drywall has been replaced. The walls have been painted. But there’s still a lot of junk…
CHRIS BERUBE: So, that’s Marvin Stockwell. He’s leading the redevelopment project of the old River Museum.
MARVIN STOCKWELL: We’ve been given access to an immersive by design museum space that snakes back in on itself. It’s 33,000 square feet. And there are two full-size boats in there. So, we were given a space that, like… If you’re a commercial developer, you’re like, “What the hell are we going to do with this space?” But you turn it over to artists, and they’re like, “I’ll tell you what we’re going to do with it!” Right?
CHRIS BERUBE: So, today, Marvin’s working with artists and designers and video game developers. And they’re turning it into this immersive experience. Like, there’s gonna be big video screens and, like, a sci-fi plot and kind of this D&D-like game you can play. So, Kathryn Hicks–she’s one of the developers on the project. And here’s how she described it to me.
KATHRYN HICKS: Think of the Millennium Falcon ride in Star Wars, but more observation deck-style. So, the look and feel will kind of be, like, this very steampunky, very 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea…
ROMAN MARS: I mean, that’s amazing. It sounds incredibly ambitious.
CHRIS BERUBE: It is. And there’s a huge renovation happening in the space right now. And for this project to keep the costs affordable, they are reusing a lot of the features in the space, which of course includes these two full-size boats from when it was the River Museum.
CHRIS BERUBE: Here we go. Here we go.
[BELL RINGS]
CHRIS BERUBE: I know I’m a serious reporter, Roman, but I was not above ringing the bell and feeling delight at ringing the bells. But it’s really interesting. It’s another reminder that I saw all over Memphis and that I really felt in the Pyramid that the life of buildings is long, right? And we never know what’s going to end up in a particular space.
ROMAN MARS: I find it delightful. In terms of adaptive reuse, it seems like an incredibly big change. Did Jimmy, our historian, feel like the loss of something or just kind of excitement about what was happening?
CHRIS BERUBE: He’s actually the one who brought me here. So, he was enthusiastic that something was moving in. And I feel like he had this really good attitude about how spaces change and how cities change.
CHRIS BERUBE: I mean, how do you feel, knowing what it was and seeing what it’s becoming?
JIMMY OGLE: I’m over that. I mean, you know, like when you have an old friend who passes away, you’re sad for the passing, but it was a good long life. And after you get over the tears, you start telling stories about each other and it turns into a giggle fest at a funeral. You know, it’s a celebration…
CHRIS BERUBE: So, you know, just celebrate the 40 years that it was there. I feel like this is an attitude that sometimes I can lose sight of when talking about buildings and change in cities. And I just think this is a really healthy attitude to have.
ROMAN MARS: I think it’s a great reminder for all of us about all kinds of things. This is really fantastic, Chris. Thank you so much for bringing me back to Memphis. I really appreciate it–more than you know.
CHRIS BERUBE: Roman, it was a real pleasure. And I hope one day they get the monorail running again. I’d like to nominate us to be the first to take a ride on it because I really want to see the monorail in action.
ROMAN MARS: I will meet you there in a heartbeat. Thank you.
CHRIS BERUBE: Thanks, Roman.
ROMAN MARS: This bonus episode was produced by Chris Berube and Isabel Angell. Mix by Martín Gonzalez. Music by Swan Real and Mya Byrne. Fact-checking by Lara Bullens.
You can find a list of Jimmy Ogle’s tours and special events on his website, jimmyogle.com, that’s jimmyogle.com.
Special thanks to Louis Graham, and the team at Baron Von Opperbean and the River of Time. They’re the ones building an immersive experience at Mud Island. We’ll have a link to their project on our website.
Kathy Tu is our executive producer. Kurt Kohlstedt is our digital director. Delaney Hall is our senior editor. The rest of the team includes Jayson DeLeon, Emmett Fitzgerald, Christopher Johnson, Vivian Le, Lasha Madan, Jeyca Medina-Gleason, Kelly Prime, Joe Rosenberg and me, Roman Mars. The 99% Invisible logo was created by Stefan Lawrence.
We are part of the SiriusXM Podcast Family, now headquartered six blocks north in the Pandora building… in beautiful… uptown… Oakland, California.
You can find us on Bluesky, as well as our own Discord server. There’s a link to that, as well as every past episode of 99PI, at 99pi.org.
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